Interview

Yoko Nakazawa My name is Yoko, I'm from Japan. I moved to Australia about ten years ago, and now I live in Malmsbury. 

Narelle Sullivan Can you describe the process of making miso? 

Yoko Nakazawa So, first you have to ferment rice. Well, my miso uses rice, so I ferment rice with these koji spores. And, once it's done, that's called rice koji. And then that rice koji and cooked soybean together, and then ferment for further, roughly one year. So, two fermentation process happening. 

Narelle Sullivan Sounds like you're almost making a baby with the koji. 

Yoko Nakazawa Yeah, koji making is more looking after baby because they generate heat and then they become too hot. So you have to monitor and then worked on that even during at night. So when I'm fermenting rice, to make it rice koji, I don't think I'm really sleeping well because I'm always thinking about it. Oh, what if it becomes da da da da da... Yeah, like looking after babies. 

My business name is called Cooking with Koji and I make miso and sell miso and run cooking workshops. Koji is a very important element of Japanese food culture. That's an edible mould, which we make miso, soy sauce, sake, mirin, vinegar, everything, very important things to make Japanese flavour. So I really respect that, and so I used koji into my business name, but it's also Japanese name as well, like man's name. So I make miso and sell miso at the farmer's market, and also run cooking workshops, most popular miso paste making and Japanese home style cooking workshops and some Japanese ferments, like making shio koji and soy sauce and how to make tofu.

So it's really what we do in Japan, like nothing special cooking, I just share these daily cooking things with people. It's like home style, which I believe it's healthier and full of love and that's the best food in the world. 

Narelle Sullivan What were you doing before you came to Australia? 

Yoko Nakazawa I had a corporate career, so nothing to do with business at all.

Narelle Sullivan Did you have help in the early days, trying to figure out what your business was and your business model? 

Yoko Nakazawa I didn't plan anything, in my case at least, but several organisation helped me, like Stepping Stones and like Global Sisters. They gave me some access to the commercial kitchen. 

Also they promote my business as well, and they run like a circle, so the people who are already starting business, we gather. This month is about financials and we can talk and learn from each other. So connecting to other entrepreneurs. It's the place I can go if I'm in trouble or if I need some specific help. The support I'm receiving now is pretty good because everyone is doing actual business and doesn't mean everything is perfect.

Everyone is struggling in this way and that way. So not the theory we learn, but actual advice or information. I think it's useful to get the support like this stage, not before you start. 

Narelle Sullivan What did you find to be the most challenging in the beginning? Were there moments in starting the business where you questioned if you could do it?

Yoko Nakazawa I think because I'm in the food industry, the regulation and procedure you have to take, that was the challenge because I wasn't in a house with the proper kitchen and there was no way we can change up to the standard where council will give permission. So that was, ‘oh, I don't know how to do this’. And, yes, I wasn't sure if that can support my whole life as my main income. Can this business become proper business, not like hobby type of business? So that's the shift. 

So yeah, in a way I was questioning for a long time. Because a lot of people, my Japanese friends, said, ‘Oh, you can't make money from miso, because so much labor involved’. So have to think how can we make this possible to live on.

So that's what I'm, I think, trying to do right now. As a sole trader, it's really always only yourself to talk to. My good network at the moment is the people who work in the farmer's market. They all do their own business. We constantly, all of the store holders, exchange the information and sometimes we can order ingredients together.

So, I found it so hard being in country is not easy access to ingredients. For example, everything was free delivery when I was in Melbourne. Now it's so different and sometimes they don't deliver to countryside and have to be pallet and you have to have forklift. So, my stage is not that, you know, big shed with the forklift.

But, if I buy from the retail store, you don't make money at all. To go to this big forklift level is such a big step, and I found a lot of women at farmer's market. We are in a quite small, same scale. Everyone making things from hand, they can't store that much, so we sometimes work together to get ingredients together and then collect from one spot.

So for me at the moment, all the people I met through the farmer's market, sometimes can be my model, sometimes can be my mentor, sometimes I can help them, and I really appreciate the network. 

Narelle Sullivan When you were first starting to run your business, did you know things like creating a budget or how the tax system worked or superannuation or those kinds of things?

Yoko Nakazawa Yeah, that was my question to this financial group and also to my farmer's market friend. What should I do? What's that? I think the way I did it... I sell one job, miso, or I run workshop, and then from that money I think, what's next I can do from this. So, I don't think that was a good way to start.

I was too afraid and I wasn't confident to do that sort of thing. I think I was able to get some small loan for this business, but I never feel comfortable doing that. And I don't know that was a good decision or not, but I didn't. I didn't jump into big something or buy big equipment. So maybe that's why my business goes very slowly, but I think that was my comfort way to do it.

People give me lots of ideas. So that's good about this business. The challenging is how to make my time for it. Now I came to the stage, I need to have somebody's help. So not employee based, but one time I asked some agency to do some of my packaging, but probably I need to hire somebody to support my workshop now.

I'm excited to have some assistant in my workshop so that maybe we'll get better and easier. 

Narelle Sullivan And do you have support to help you make those decisions, around how to make your business more sustainable? 

Yoko Nakazawa That was the things I was struggling for a long time because this is really time consuming work and I know I'm working too long, too hard, and my body is starting to say no more.

And I realised the way I'm running at the moment is not sustainable and it can destroy my body. I can't hire a full time person because lots of waiting time for this business. So I don't know, but in terms of workshop, I learned from other people who running workshop and then, oh, okay, like you can hire somebody this time and then makes it much easier.

So again, learning these things from my farmer's market network and this is the section I think I want some help to make this business sustainable. 

Narelle Sullivan What kind of support do you feel like you need when you're starting a business? 

Yoko Nakazawa Maybe this procedure thing, like how to get ABN, how to register your business name.

In my case, I'm reading English on the internet, takes ages, and that's really hard because often the government website is using formal language and probably a lot more information what actually need, but we can't tell. We have to check each single word and that takes ages. So make it simple information will be very helpful. 

Narelle Sullivan What do you wish you had of known at the beginning? 

Yoko Nakazawa The right market to go. The market I went to was the little artist market and the fee was affordable and that was the only reason. I think the day I sold, I think it was seven jars, was like, ‘yay I made seven jars sales!’ So for me at that stage, farmers market seems too expensive to attend. But the sales was so different.

I was approached by a farmer's market manager, and then okay, I will try one time. She said ‘oh you don't have marquee, you can use my marquee’. And then just different market. All the customer was there to buy food. It's just such a different world, and even you pay more to attend the market, you make more sales. And that was a ‘whoo’ experience. 

Narelle Sullivan I guess it's all about experiments though, isn't it? 

Yoko Nakazawa Yeah, and then often when you're in early stage, the cost and money is so tight, but sometimes that money really worth for bigger things. 

Narelle Sullivan What were your goals starting out and have they changed? 

Yoko Nakazawa I wanted to share the knowledge I have and I want people to enjoy.

So from that way, I think I'm achieving goals. I see people's happy face, so that's really good. But maybe main thing I wanted to achieve is to live with this business as a main sort of job and financial income. So I still need to achieve that and make it sustainable. 

Narelle Sullivan Who or what has been your biggest inspiration running your business?

Yoko Nakazawa I have many people who I get inspired, especially women who's also come to my workshop or who I met through this business. So many different wonderful women. I can't choose one. Like, I take good element from everybody. 

Narelle Sullivan It sounds like then just having networks and being in contact with people is really important to what you do.

Yoko Nakazawa And especially if you're working by yourself. I don't know if lonely is the right word, but it's always you are the only one who's asking thing and answering it. And I found it quite tough. So, yeah, looking at these women doing amazingly and then talk to them and become friends with them. These things really support me in many different ways. Not only get the hint about business, but yeah, something I can aim to so that I can be that sort of person for the younger generation in the future. 

Narelle Sullivan How important do you think is confidence in starting, but also running, your own business? 

Yoko Nakazawa I personally don't think that's important because, this is just really me, but I don't feel attracted to people who are very confident (laughs). That's probably my culture, where I come from, and that's my challenging, to see these people in Australia. Like, everyone seems so confident! I think even you don't have confidence talking in English or about running business, I don't think that's the reason to stop running business. You are doing your thing and that attitude, or you itself, I found it attractive. Sometimes you've been very nervous and shy, I found it attractive too. 

Narelle Sullivan All the introverts love that answer! Would you say then that perhaps you need purpose to begin and sustain a business? 

Yoko Nakazawa I think the joy I feel from what I do, people appreciate what I do. That's the feeling I was missing after I come to Australia, like I'm not belong to anywhere.

I couldn't find the meaning to be here, apart from my husband. Sometimes I'm too busy and tired and I want to skip the market, but I can see all the customer faces, they come every time, and then I know they will be so disappointed, so I go for them, like wake up early and then go to the market. And then I see these people and it makes me so happy, and they're happy, and this, how do you say, appreciate each other. That's the great motivation for me to run this business. 

Narelle Sullivan For someone starting out, where should they go for good information? What kinds of organisations did you find really helpful? 

Yoko Nakazawa The one I belonged to was the Global Sisters and they have several different programs to think about your idea, or from idea to actually start business, and then start business to make a sale.

And I think a lot of them do online now. But being in country is a little bit, a little bit tricky. But I want to say to people, because it's tricky, it's more opportunity here for women, for people from different background. 

Narelle Sullivan What advice would you give women around starting their business in Australia?

Yoko Nakazawa Such a big question. I think whatever you do, if it's related to where you come from, I think a lot of people will have interest. Rather than, oh, does it go well, give it a go and do testing and then you can get direct feedback from the people who comes to your shop or stall and for me that direct feedback is the really treasure. And maybe it's difficult if you're doing online unless they write it to you, but as long as you're doing authentic thing everyone will really appreciate.

So, I think what I'm sharing is really everyday, nothing special thing, but also in this country that's the uniqueness and I think that's become strength of the business and that's applied to all the migrant women. Shared authenticity is really strength and appealing point and people are interested in.

So, women, I want them to do it too. Me as a customer, if you're there, I want to go in and talk to you. 

Narelle Sullivan Yoko, thank you so much for talking with me today. It was so wonderful to hear all about your journey with your business and I wish you all the best. 

Yoko Nakazawa Thank you very much.